Curse

freekedoutfish · Jul 20, 2007, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

...

I see your point and I understand you obviously want lvl20 content in pre-searing, but I just dont see a need or reason for it.

I know I keep saying the same thing, but it is a dedicated training zone (unlike the islands in factions and nightfall which you can return to) and like all training zones it has to remain low-level content.

The reason being that once you reach a certain level of experience, you are meant to move on and learn everything else from the post-ascalon and onwards.

You say that newbie players need a way to learn what hard mode is, in pre-searing! why when they wont actually be able to play it until after lvl20 and completing the campaign? that could be days, weeks or months away!

What about newbie players in factions and nightfall who start on the newbie islands? They dont get experience of hard mode either until lvl20 and completion of the campaign.

Are you suggesting we should give them access to hard mode too before their ready?

All new players are in exactly the same situation, whether it be tyria, factions or nightfall. No newbie players will or should experience Hard Mode until they reach lvl20 and finish the campaign.

If they added a hard mode to pre-searing which under lvl20s could play, then it would be unfair on the newbie islands in factions and nightfall. But if they gave access to hard mode on those islands before lvl20, it would screw up the entire system.

I understand that we have lvl20s running around pre-searing, in low level armor with non-max weapons and very little to do.

I also appreciate that some people really like pre-searing and dont like to leave. But they have to understand that it is what it is. And its a training zone!

If you choose to stay there, you have to make do with low level content. You cant ask that Anet make a radical change to an entire section like that, just because you dont want to move on from that location.

It would also confuse newbie players.

When I first started playing the game years ago, I didnt realise pre-searing was just a starting zone. I thought it was the actual game... as do alot of newbies I expect.

I didnt realise you had to level up as much as you could and then speak to an NPC and actually start the game elsewhere.

If you see a huge number of lvl20s running around, and your only at lvl0-8, you can get confused. I can imagine alot of new players assuming pre-searing was the actual game itselfs and was where you spent your entire time.

We have to distinguise pre-searing as a training zone, so that newbie players realise they have to move on at some point. Otherwise no one would ever leave that zone.

And again, training people in hard mode at such a low level isnt required! Do you not agree that by the time you finished a campaign, you should have achieved enough experience and knowledge to get a fair idea of how hard mode would work?

The name alone suggests its harder, which should suggest buffed creatures!

But why do lvl0-8s need to know or be intimidated by hard mode at such a low level?

You learn to understand normal mode from playing the entire campaign, and then you have experience to compare to hard mode.

You cant expect a lvl0-12 player to have enough experience of normal mode in pre-searing, to then play hard mode and be able to think "hm.... I can tell the fundimental differences".

All they will think is "sweet jesus, that was harder... but why?"

They wont have enough experience after just 3 hours to understand about elite skills, buffed monk abilities, powerfull nuking and alike.

It would be a brain overload and too much to understand for a newbie player! It might even scare alot of players away.

We do need hard mode explained to newbies though...

I do however agree that we need some education on the difference between hard mode and normal mode. But not by chaning the icon and having full access.

We need a system where you speak to an NPC in training, and he puts you up against a normal mode creature and then makes you fight the hard mode version. Chances are you will die against the hard mode version, but that would be the point...

...the NPC would then explain the differences, and how you unlock hard mode. But make a point to explain that it is only for experienced players.

But to give people full-on access to hard mode in pre-searing is just foolish. Its like giving a child a match and expecting them to understand the dangers and not just enjoy the flame.

Sophitia Leafblade · Jul 20, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

.....

You make some fair points but they are all aimed at the content being for newbie players. HM in pre wouldnt be for a straight out new player, it like all things HM would be for a relativly experienced person (as in someone who has completed the campaign) HM is aimed to make the game more challenging, increase rewards and to give the game longer life. Every area of the game has HM access. Originally you couldnt take Post characters back due to the time difference,. However all the games have different time spans, its less of a big deal, although Pre-Searing is still unique in that it cant be returned to. Despite this it still could do with some HM features for remade/new characters. Im not talking about adding a massive amount of things, Either just revamp the areas in the same way normal HM areas are and add an Ascalon Battle Cry(which doesnt take much in the way of work) or add a High Tier Elite style area.

Shing Jea and Istan are also both training areas, yet both have HM content, and they have over lvl 15 content -> lvl 20 content in the latter part of the isle. Yet Pre-Searing doesnt have any real content for anyone Over lvl 8 except Charr hunting and Death leveling. Anet has been increasly promoting Presearing activity, with the addition of the title, adding Charr bags and ident kits etc. And yet despite this they not added any post lvl 8 things to do other than the over mentioned things. If a Hm wasnt added then perhaps the next best things would be to add some npcs north of the wall with some repeatable quests, so that LDoA is less time>skill, (although to some extent it still will be but its wont be nearly as bad as it is now and it would promote joining a party in pre-searing)

LOL i remeber in my early days when i didnt know about PUGs and so i ended up getting all the way up to Nolani Academy mission on my own before i discovered how to add people/hench to a party (although im sure this is better explained now, i must have missed the Quest with Alesia and the Res sig Quest in Pre)

There should really be an explaination of HM in all the training areas of the game, even if its brief. Such as ur thought about showing u the difference between a NM creature and a HM creature.

MithranArkanere · Jul 20, 2007, 07:44 PM // 19:44

At least turning Piken Square intoa new outpost with someone in the door that let only level 10 or more in. With a merchant and a collector exchanging 100 char hides for level 10 armor pieces: 50, 40, and 30 armor.

And another one exchanging 250 for level 15 armor: 65, 55 and 45.

freekedoutfish · Jul 23, 2007, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

There should really be an explaination of HM in all the training areas of the game, even if its brief. Such as ur thought about showing u the difference between a NM creature and a HM creature.

I absolutely agree that we need some education about hard mode in the games. And if pre-searing was returnable and part of the same timeline, then I would sign this idea.

But I dont agree because it is set in the past and its unreturnable with your char. The main reason being that players have high-end content, located in the main game.

I cant get passed the fact that pre-searing is a training zone.

As for adding char bags and other new content to pre-searing, those are a given because alot of people farm there. Those are a necessity which should have always been there.

I also accept that maybe having some higher end content in pre-searing would be good, because Anet has promoted the idea of being lvl20 in that zone.

But I dont think we need HM content, maybe just high end normal mode content. But nothing excessive which would detract from newbies leaving that zone.

We still need that distinction of it being a training zone, otherwise newbie players might never leave without realising. But the problem would then be having max armor and weapons in pre-searing.

You shouldnt get max armor and weapons until atleast lions arch, where you can travel to factions to get it. (Idealy you shouldnt get max gear until the desert)

With access to max gear and weapons in pre-searing, we will have newbie players or low level players leaving pre-searing with max gear (if they are run to those locations), and entering post-ascalon with an advantage over other players.

You shouldnt be able to get max gear at the very start of a game. And pre-searing is the very, very, very start!!

Kris · Jul 23, 2007, 11:12 AM // 11:12

I believe you guys are over-working a solution, and also trying to defend your personal ideas of what Pre should be.

1. Who cares (You? Why?) if someone wants to be level 20 in Pre. The worlds are instanced, and nobody is going to kill you or grief you.

2. Legendary "Defender" of Ascalon - To me, that title sounds like you fought off a hoarde of nasty creatures hundreds of times. Not the opposite of "died 3,766 times to 12 charr".

3. All it needs as a solution is VERY SIMPLE. Add 2 bosses that are level 18 in the northlands. Job done. People who want 20 now can get it without deathleveling IF THEY WANT TO. Doesnt hurt anyone or change anything does it? Unless youre so proud of your title achieved by afking you dont want anyone else to get it.

God Apprentice · Jul 23, 2007, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sordrax

As a LDoA title holder, I think the idea is bad. First Hardmode would mean that rare items could drop. Second Hardmode would also mean it was possible, not probable, but possible to get Survivor in pre and the LDoA title would be cheapended a little bit. I got my level 20 when there was NO title for LDoA in pre. I was the 4th, and I think the title made that accomplishment meaningless. Now I see 1000's of people who go to pre just to get the title then leave. Being level 20 in pre was for the people who STAY in pre. After all it is a native title that can only be obtained in the original campaign.

Adding missions, hardmode, better weapons, armor, even runes would totally unbalance the area. People this is a tutorial. It's great theres a entire community devoted to it, however, people have enough problems with the learning curve when it comes to skills, weapons, and defense. I for one don't want to see someone walk out of pre level 1 with a max damage sword and think they are king of the world, then ask what the 'gash' button is for. That would just make the game even less enjoyable.

Pre is pre. Leave it alone. If you want to go do challenging missions and quests I have a idea for you, go see Sir Tydus at the Academy. Accept his quest and you will have 3 possible worlds of adventure awaiting you.

Nuff Said
Merciless Evilphyre
LDoA April 2006

Spoken truly Merciless

The fact that ANet added a title ruined "going for 20" in pre. Me and Merciless are not the only ones who have felt this way. Going for 20 back in the day was kinda an "underground" thing, as there were people who did it not for any reward, but did it to prove it could be done. Then ANet added that title and suddenly many new people flooded in to attempt this. However the only reason they would now is because a reward was added. How many times when I was death leveling did I have people tell me I had no life, etc. Now it is an accepted thing. If ANet decided to take away the title, how many people would continue to death level to 20?

korcan · Jul 23, 2007, 08:57 PM // 20:57

isnt the op basically wanting what post-ascalon offers? just leave pre and go to post.

i still dont get why people would limit their characters to what pre has to offer when theres just so much more in post, especially after hitting lvl20 in pre.

Age · Jul 23, 2007, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by korcan

isnt the op basically wanting what post-ascalon offers? just leave pre and go to post.

i still dont get why people would limit their characters to what pre has to offer when theres just so much more in post, especially after hitting lvl20 in pre.

I think players prefer the looks of pre to the nuclear wasteland of post.I would rather they expand on pre and go to post after the Noloni Academy mission and would like to see the city of Rin.

freekedoutfish · Jul 24, 2007, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I think players prefer the looks of pre to the nuclear wasteland of post.I would rather they expand on pre and go to post after the Noloni Academy mission and would like to see the city of Rin.

GW:EN is adding more of that lush, green, farmland look though. So they can play that to get that look.

Fitz Rinley · Jul 27, 2007, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

/unsigned.

Any content added there would be forcing people to make new characters just to experience it. As my character slots are full, doing this would force me to chose between buying a new slot (which will become unused once I've experienced the content), deleting one of my characters (not going to happen) or missing out on the content.

So what? When Factions came out and titles were added I had no way of going back for Defender of Ascalon with my very first character. I had to destroy that character to start it over because GW did not give a rat's whether or not they provided equal opportunity to established players. I now have 13 character slots (two are mules because of the still inadequate storage system) I have 10 characters and had to destroy my first one so he could go back fo Defender title. There were so many screwings in the implementation of Factions that I am just now getting to where I am only angry about it over a year later.

Adding something in that will allow people seeking the title to get it in a reasonable manner and amount of time is not inappropriate. The current 396 nights of death leveling while you sleep after you make 16th level is absurd.

Edit: As for the HM argument, what Pre-Searing needs is explanation tablets like you have in Shing Jea. An NPC that pits you against a HM monster only to eliminate any chance at Survivor title is wrong - especially since titles are Never explained.

I agree Pre-Searing is for training and those who do not wish to leave because they do not want to play the game should not be overly concerned if they do not get special consideration. The question ANet should ask is why is Pre-Searing preferable to X number of people over Post. Further, when ANet created the Defender title the ended the Pre is a dedicated training zone. That title by nature destroys the Pre is only a training zone because it requires one to go to 20th level in Pre. Because in order to get the title I had to destroy a character that had already made it to having only two Titans quests left and remake him, I completely disagree that special considerations should not be made.

What would be more appropriate is a special hard mode for Pre. One where the monsters only get a +10 boost in level, and only available to those who have an account that has beaten the game. Once a character of that account reaches 10th level they get the option to go to Pre-Searing Hard Mode, and then they can work on Defender Title, but cannot party with someone in normal mode or go back to normal mode. (Warning displayed: If you choose Hard Mode you will remain in Hard Mode until you leave for the next stage of the game.)

freekedoutfish · Jul 27, 2007, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

I agree Pre-Searing is for training and those who do not wish to leave because they do not want to play the game should not be overly concerned if they do not get special consideration. The question ANet should ask is why is Pre-Searing preferable to X number of people over Post. Further, when ANet created the Defender title the ended the Pre is a dedicated training zone. That title by nature destroys the Pre is only a training zone because it requires one to go to 20th level in Pre. Because in order to get the title I had to destroy a character that had already made it to having only two Titans quests left and remake him, I completely disagree that special considerations should not be made.

Have you considered that adding lvl20 content to pre-searing might/would be deprimental to the entire prophercies compaign.

We need the majority of players to leave pre-searing at a set point, because otherwise most players would just hang around there and do all the lvl20 content and never move on.

Its bad enough we have players being spread accross 3 games and soon an expansion. By adding lvl20 content to pre-searing your basically adding another place to keep them away from the main content.

As i've said before, we need to incourage most people to leave pre-searing because otherwise player numbers will fall in that campaign. You will have newbiew players assuming that is the main game and they will never leave.

There has to be a clear distinction between pre-searing being a low level, training zone and making it clear you are meant to leave to access higher level content.

Its all well and good having lvl20 content in factions and nightfall on the training islands, because you can leave and return there as you please.

You can very easily leave thos training islands and take part in the rest of the game.

But if we incouraged people to stay in pre-searing they cant just leave, and they wouldnt because they know that. We would end up with players rolling new chars and never leaving that zone.

Do you not think that would have a negative effect on player numbers?

Sophitia Leafblade · Jul 27, 2007, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

....

I think what it really comes down to is Anet has a choice, they either need to revamp Presearing with some more content (see previously mentioned ideas) or Change the Legendary defender of Ascalon title so that you gain it some other way in Post searing (like completing the Titan quests) which i have also mentioned in the past. As it stands everthing is out of whack, with them promoting lvl 20s in Pre and yet not giving a means to reach lvl 20 without taking advantage of the game mechanics to death level and making titles mutualy exclusive. I dont mind which way they go, as long as they go one way or the other and dont remain in limbo!

freekedoutfish · Jul 27, 2007, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

I think what it really comes down to is Anet has a choice, they either need to revamp Presearing with some more content (see previously mentioned ideas) or Change the Legendary defender of Ascalon title so that you gain it some other way in Post searing (like completing the Titan quests) which i have also mentioned in the past. As it stands everthing is out of whack, with them promoting lvl 20s in Pre and yet not giving a means to reach lvl 20 without taking advantage of the game mechanics to death level and making titles mutualy exclusive. I dont mind which way they go, as long as they go one way or the other and dont remain in limbo!

I personally think they should just remove LDOA, because that is what caused all this trouble anyway.

Since they wont do that, I would have to agree they should add a better way to level up to 20 in pre-searing instead of stupid death-leveling because it seems too much like a hack.

The only idea I would ever accept personally, is if they added higher level creatures into the northern areas of pre-searing. At a max of lvl15, because you can level up to 20 on those (I think).

I dont agree with max armor, max weapons or hard mode in pre-searing though.

But if people really want LDOA they should alteast gives creatures which will allow them to level up when killed.

Because you wouldnt have max armor or weapons (unless have bonus pack), then most newbie players wouldnt dare challenge a creature far stronger then themselves.

It wouldnt then only apeal to more crazey players who wanted to get their ass'es kicked alot.

But I think that is the only high end content they should add. Just some higher level creatures to kill, but NO max armor or max weapons.

As for hard mode, just keep that for pre-ascalon!

You get all the education you need for hard mode, from playing the actual campaign. Tf you cant handle hard mode after completing an entire campaign I'd be worried about you.

Sophitia Leafblade · Jul 27, 2007, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Yes i agree with No max armour and no max weapons (ignoring the Bonus weapons). Now if only we only we could get Anet to do somethign about it

MithranArkanere · Jul 27, 2007, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Well.. the 0Xp from lower level enemies was for that, to prvent players from staying in PreSearing.

But now is different. Now OLDER players, that already have finished the campaigns and so, are the ones that keep one character or more in PreSearing.

I have 10 characters, one with each profession, and then, one PvP slot and one PreSearing Slot.

I use the presearing slot to hep my guild frinds in PreSearing and to socialize and such in there.

What could be done is to make a level 20 copy of PreSearing. Players coming back would not contact with new players. Ascalon would be an outpost at level 20 and with party size of 4, with no henchmen, allowing Hard Mode and such, and level of enemies would be increased by 18, so level 0 monsters would be at 18 and Charr Bosses would be at level 28.

And, of course, drops would be different, without Char Bags oir Charr Kits, and with loot scaling.

Effendi Westland · Jul 27, 2007, 10:00 AM // 10:00

/not signed

Rather have Anet working on other stuff/add things to post-searing.

freekedoutfish · Jul 27, 2007, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

What could be done is to make a level 20 copy of PreSearing. Players coming back would not contact with new players. Ascalon would be an outpost at level 20 and with party size of 4, with no henchmen, allowing Hard Mode and such, and level of enemies would be increased by 18, so level 0 monsters would be at 18 and Charr Bosses would be at level 28.

How would that work with continuety though (hope spelt that right)?

A level20 version of Pre-Searing is basically Pre-Ascalon in hard mode. How could you justify or have it make sense, to travel back in time to pre-searing and have it all be high end content?

I think the solution is what was mentioned.

Just add creatures up to lvl15 in the northern region of the game and maybe add one more location in the same place for LDOA to hang out.

That way dedicated players can level up on those creatures, and lvl20 LDOAs can hang out with other lvl20 players and can have avoid newbies if they want.

No max armor, no max weapons, no hard mode.

Just one new location for lvl20s to chill out in, and have the instances surrounding it be creatures up to atleast lvl15.

It would be a no-go area for anyone who didnt want to level up, because their low armor would make it too hard to do.

But we would an NPC to explain how to get there, and why it exists. Make up some story-arc! So they understand that you can level up to 20 if you want, but that is doesnt effect the storyline.

Div · Jul 27, 2007, 05:04 PM // 17:04

If anet didn't even add a HM to presearing, chances are they won't add any new missions or huge quests to it either...

Snow Bunny · Jul 27, 2007, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

/not signed

Rather have Anet working on other stuff/add things to post-searing.

I agree.

On another note, this is just like the survivor title discussion in terms of LDoA. I don't have a LDoA, but I do have 2 lvl 3 survivors, both of whom I got to that level before titles were implemented.
The title destroys the fun of it, the challenge. Like with LDoA, it was unique to attempt something most people thought was a waste of time, and succeed at it. I don't understand why people want to make this stuff easier. Go out and do it the hard way, it gives ya character!

October Jade · Jul 27, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Perhaps I'm just being cynical here...but I laugh a little whenever I read someone talking about the presearing "community."

I spend a decent amount of time in pre, but I rarely talk to anyone...selling dye is usually the only occasion for which I hang around in town. The largest reason for this is that presearing is undeniably the cesspool of GW society. Ascalon City (at least on the American side) is full of foul-mouthed children who stand around doing little besides spouting racial/homophobic slurs and uninformed innuendos. Local chat ftl.

I pity anyone who is new to the game nowadays. If my first glimpse of Guild Wars were the Ascalon of today, I think I would uninstall almost immediately.